Weight Differences

Weight Differences - click here to add to this discussion RE: Weight Differences


From: Ian Duff, Invisible Cities Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
Subject: Weight Differences

An ongoing question remains, how much heavier are the Tartan boats? Might you have any hard data? Comparing my Tartan hull and Peter d'Anjou's Soverel hull (using the incredibly accurate Mk I Eyeball) led me to believe they came from the same mold. Your story certainly adds to my belief that only one hull form is in play. Further, his boat and my boat floated at pretty near exactly the same place, with similar loads. Folklore has the weight difference at about a thousand pounds.

Given that the waterline plane is something like 29 feet long, by say 8 feet wide, with a prismatic coefficient of something like 60%, that gives an inch of immersion requiring something like 700 pounds. Try this to figure it out for yourself: (29*8)*.6, gives 139.2 square feet of the waterline plane, divide by 12 gives the volume of this plane one inch thick, or 11.6 cubic feet, multiply by 62 pounds per cubic foot for seawater (64 pounds for you kids on freshwater lakes), gives 719.2 pounds for an inch of immersion.

Given the (high) quality of my assumptions, this leads me to believe that my (Tartan) boat should float about an inch deeper than Peter's (Soverel) boat, and it didn't seem to. Might be my Mk I Eyeball needs recalibrating.

I'm happy to take the PHRF rating +3, but I'm not sure I deserve it. Hard data would certainly be nice. Make me feel less guilty. Yeah, right. Something like two boats with similar gear aboard, measured on the same scale. Other than that, it remains folklore . . .


From: Mark Yancey, Manhattan Magic Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

When I had Masquerade (SVM # 24) on Galveston Bay, a friend who liked my boat, traded his S2 7.9 for a Tartan Soverel. His was inboard and elliptical (I don't recall what hull, but it was named Spar Trek), mine was outboard and straight. We did some "advanced" speed testing between the two boats and found out they were very evenly matched. We even traded boats during a series to rule out the "human" factor. In my experience, with some "heavy hitters", in the sailing industry, weight is not a real issue, within reason, more a perceived one. If you "think" you are slow because you are heavy, then you will be, inversely, if you are light and every body thinks you have an advantage, you will! It's almost a built in excuse to fail. Don't fall for it! We weighed the two boats and Barry's Tartan weighed almost 900 lbs. more than my Soverel, but we were the same speed on the water, it came down to boat handling and tactics


From: John Morris, Rambunctious Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

Soverel 33 weights: Hellacious, which was one of the first Soverel 33's, was advertised at 5200 lbs. The early ones were recalled for stiffening stringers in the bow which added a few pounds. This was done because the bow would "Oil Can" in a stiff Breeze. If I remember correctly, this brought them up to somewhere around 5400 lbs and the ones made on the West Coast a few more, I think 5600 lbs. After that they changed the coring of the hull and deck and the "Signature Series" was advertised at 5800 lbs (standard interior ). When Tartan took over they added the optional "Touring Interior" as standard equipment, changed the transom and this brought the advertised weight up to 6000 lbs. When I was checking on the PHRF's back in the late 80's I could not find any difference in the ratings of series. If I remember correctly they were designated as dash 1 & 2 after the name to distinguish between different series of them. Blue Angle, which was the Soverel 33 prototype, was up here to race on her maiden tour back in 1982 with Bill & Mark. It was beautiful. Hope this helps with the weights.


From: Topher Wurts, Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

Could probably start weighing the boats whenever possible, like at large events where there are a number of boats, etc. Even in the J/24 class there were wide variances of weight in boats from the same mold/builder. Seems like a worthwhile project and addition to the web site; boat weight by hull #, especially since there aren't that many boats . . .


From: Jerry Kedziora, x-Zot Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

Zot is a Tarten built boat. I have an old IMS certificate that says That my boat weighs 6287 lbs. For what it's worth.

I do not have the touring interior.


From: Bill Adikes, x-Saucy Girl Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

Legend has it that a few of the very early S-33 boats weighed in at under 5000 pounds. But, when I visited the Soverel yard in Palm Beach at the time of the 1985 S-33 "Nationals", these light boats had already started to break up (cracked bulkheads, etc.) and most owners were adding material to stiffen them up. The boats Mark built in Florida in 1985 were surprisingly soft and flexible (winch platforms would move in heavy air), and the move to Tartan (with the new deck) seemed to solve this problem (we guessed that the price was about 300 extra pounds).

My boat (x-Saucy Girl) was estimated to weigh fairly close to 6,000 pounds,and the "Cruising" interior with headliner (which Tartan added later on boats like Deviation) probably added another 100 to 200 pounds. Interesting discussion! I certainly have always believed that the heavier boats were stiffer and faster in heavy air, while the older, lighter boats had a very slight advantage in under ten knots of wind. But I have never been in a regatta where hull weight had a significant impact on the outcome (crew weight is something else!).


From: Tom Gilbert, Grafix Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002
Subject: RE: Weight Differences

We had the weight of my boat at 6600#. It was FULL of all things related to racing in the northwest, rain gear, cushions, spf 10,15, 20 30 etc. And a full bottle of Bailey's. We have since cleaned the boat somewhat and think 6400 is close.

I saw an IMS rating a few years ago that had actual weights for a couple boats. [see IMS ratings for Soverel 33's]

 

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